Difference S and P?

[Rowlf]

I think P and PA give rise to totally different brain chemistry to Sx. I know for me P would be a never-ending search for more. Patrick Carnes's books said sx addicts followed ritualised ways of behaving to get their kick. I think that was true for me and surfing. Same patterns, same time of day etc.

Sx with a partner is the opposite of that. I have to be open to the moment and to the wishes of my partner. If I'm not the moment dies pretty fast. It's a dance and needs awareness.

P was just numbing out.

[seeker]

. it has NOTHING to do with generic male traits.

Nothing? You must admit that what drives me and others to this nasty habit is biological function, at least in part.

focus on yourself. until you give up porn and MB for at least a couple months, you have no idea what it would feel like? it feels freeing, it gives you more time, your realize that are not fully giving yourself to your partner, you realize that sex is really about expressing love. i thought the same way you did early on and now I realize that if you blame male traits, TV, internet, etc., you are simply making an excuse.

jrock

Looking forward to that achievement jrock. Thanks for framing it so eloquently. o:-)

[maggie]

Seeker,

I'm noticing this theme in your posts that a male has biological or genetic reasons for his poor behavior.

All human beings have urges. Males and females. Sxual and not sxual urges.

But as human beings, we learn from a very early age, to control our natural urges if we want to live in the world with other people.

Just watch a group of 3 year olds as they bicker over toys. A child may see another child playing with a toy that he/she wants, so goes over and just grabs it from the other child. After all the screaming, and some parental guidance, the child will learn that just because you ' want something ' or have ' an urge ' to do something for your own pleasure..... it is not acceptable behavior.

Viewing and enjoying porn has nothing to do with hormones or biological traits, it is just an example of a person who hasn't learned to control the natural instinct to take from others to make oneself happy and hasn't learned how to make choices that do not hurt others.

[Life-lies-trust]

Well put maggieliz the addict is like a 3 year old I want and I get it NOW!!!!!! They do not look beyond what they want at the moment and nothing but that moment matters to them. Example the knows if the addict looks at porn at work the addict may loose their job but does that stop them NO!! It is the little kid mind set of I want it and No one will know.

[seeker]

Seeker,

I'm noticing this theme in your posts that a male has biological or genetic reasons for his poor behavior.

All human beings have urges. Males and females. Sxual and not sxual urges.

But as human beings, we learn from a very early age, to control our natural urges if we want to live in the world with other people.

Just watch a group of 3 year olds as they bicker over toys. A child may see another child playing with a toy that he/she wants, so goes over and just grabs it from the other child. After all the screaming, and some parental guidance, the child will learn that just because you ' want something ' or have ' an urge ' to do something for your own pleasure..... it is not acceptable behavior.

Viewing and enjoying porn has nothing to do with hormones or biological traits, it is just an example of a person who hasn't learned to control the natural instinct to take from others to make oneself happy and hasn't learned how to make choices that do not hurt others.

I respectfully disagree. I feel that porn is an outlet for biological urges and probably isn't really detrimental in moderation, particularly when one party in a relationship has different wants and desire (and urges) than another. However, clearly I and others have gone much beyond moderation and am here for some support with that abuse. I also don't believe that this nasty habit rising to the level of addiction. I dispute that characterization strongly.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

seeker-

Are you lying to your partner about your P use? If she knows and is cool, then you have no problem. Do you tell her, "Honey, I like sx with you, but after, then I go look at P because I really wish I could just sleep around." If so, and she is cool, then you have no problem.

My point is, if you are lying to your partner, even if it is a lie of omission, then that is detrimental. So, if you think that you can just get your P use down to what you deem a "normal" level, but your partner is in the dark, then P use is detrimental to you and your relationship.

If you have different wants and desires than your partner, then that is why you should have honest conversations before things get serious. Telling yourself that you really love her so you just look at P so you can be faithful is not really an act of love. It is another excuse. Its possible for you to find someone to love who is fine with you looking at P or even fine with an open relationship. Strangely enough though, P and sx addicts don't typically want their partner to be the unfaithful one.

EDITED to remove bitchy comment that was probably taken correctly as being bitchy. I apologize.

I believe it is possible for everyone to beat P and sx addiction, but only if they want it and believe that these addictions are personally harmful, with no excuses or rationalizations. Do you want to quit P entirely or do you just want to get it to a "reasonable" level? It is important for you to decide what you want so you know how to get there. No matter what though, if you are lying to your partner, you have a problem.

I wish you well in your journey.

[seeker]

seeker-

Are you lying to your partner about your P use? If she knows and is cool, then you have no problem. Do you tell her, "Honey, I like sx with you, but after, then I go look at P because I really wish I could just sleep around." If so, and she is cool, then you have no problem.

My point is, if you are lying to your partner, even if it is a lie of omission, then that is detrimental. So, if you think that you can just get your P use down to what you deem a "normal" level, but your partner is in the dark, then P use is detrimental to you and your relationship.

If you have different wants and desires than your partner, then that is why you should have honest conversations before things get serious. Telling yourself that you really love her so you just look at P so you can be faithful is not really an act of love. It is another excuse. Its possible for you to find someone to love who is fine with you looking at P or even fine with an open relationship. Strangely enough though, P and sx addicts don't typically want their partner to be the unfaithful one.

We all have natural urges. My natural urge is to be a bitch. But, I have to control that because even being a little bit of a bitch is detrimental to my relationship. We can control ourselves, and it is an excuse to say, well, its just in my DNA and I can't help myself.

I beleive it is possible for everyone to beat P and sx addiction, but only if they want it and believe that these addictions are personally harmful, with no excuses or rationalizations. Do you want to quit P entirely or do you just want to get it to a "reasonable" level? It is important for you to decide what you want so you know how to get there. No matter what though, if you are lying to your partner, you have a problem.

I wish you well in your journey.

Your comments, while helpful, are laced with hyprocity. Don't preach to me that moderate amounts of P are harmful when not revealed while you, I am virtually certain, enjoy more than a solitary impure thought about movie stars/co-workers/friends/ex's/strangers-on-the-street etc. No one is purely focused on their partner, it's not in our human nature. So if it's a lustrous glace or thought, the pages of a magazine, or a porn site, it's all something that you keep concealed as you should from your partner.

The harm results from abuse. I am here (and was while a long ago as well) because I sense that I am abusing a natural proclivity for variety. Love or not. And btw it is you who introduced that concept, not I.

I too wish you, and all, the very best in health and happiness.

[WifeOfNewLifeMan]

Seeker-

I am sorry if I offended you. I was trying to figure out if you want to quit P completely, or just use it less since you said it is now at the level of abuse. I think its important to clarify for yourself exactly what you want out of this site in order for it to be helpful for you.

I stand by my comment that even if you just want to get to an acceptable, but not abusive level of P use, and you are lying to your partner, that is detrimental to your relationship. P use might not ruin a relationship, but dishonesty does. And I do not claim perfection in word thought or deed for myself. I may have a passing thought of "he's hot" when I see someone but I can't help my thoughts or what I see in passing. I can help what I seek out and I can control my thoughts enough to keep them passing, and not turn into obsessive behavior.

This is all off the topic of the thread though and I don't want to hijack the thread with my opinions, especially because I don't want to turn any conversation away from the real topic, which is healing for the PAs and SOs here. Have a good day.

[Rowlf]

Seeker and WifeOfNewLifeMan,

I think you both have large elements of 'truth' in your posting, and also are seeing things from very different points of view.

From the point of view of a user of P, not connected with a partner, then it might just be the 'relief' of biological urges.

From the POV of a PA then I found it's very like a 3 years old's behaviour - i.e. I 'NEED' this toy now! Mind you, the urge was not constant, just when exterior pressures built up too much and this was my immature way of trying to control the world.

And, from the POV of a partner of PA then things are going to look very different. It's a matter of trust and self-respect when someone takes an action you do not like, condone or understand....

I guess the resolution is different for each individual person / couple. But once it get to addiction state then the resolution requires surrender to something bigger and a lot of forgiveness. The change isn't easy, but being on these forums and having changed myself over the last few years, I think the results are worthwhile..... !

[boris]

Well put Rowlf. You can dance alone in a cage. or you can dance arm in arm with a partner, enjoying some unexpected turns and dips.