To all the SO's who are going nuts

[dave]

I am going to try a tough thing - offer you some insight into the insanity of what we men are trapped in.

I don't mean to read all the SO posts but when I look at the 'new posts' every day - there they are - those arresting topics that command attention - desperate women trying to grasp what the H is going on in their male partners lives
Well here goes one feeble late night attempt at what may be goig on in their guys heads.

I have been P and M clean for over 4 months and many things are becoming clearer.

Our society saturates us with sexual images. Visiting a sex shop is a normal thing for couples to do.
Even everyday clothing now shows off more and more curves. Low cut shirts are the rage now.
Then the internet gives us a 'free' chance to take a peek 'for free'. Totally private and no strings attached. We get drawn into it and the insanity of it all gradually grabs ahold.
Quick easy orgasms with no effort and no consequences. There are no boundries. No one ever talks about it openly except to brag or make jokes.
I have always loved my wife dearly but I gradually allowed myself these guilty pleasures. I rationalized that - I am not perfect - at least this sin is private and has on consequences. HA HA

But the P takes a hold. I loved my partner deeply but I loved P too. I thought I could have both. I was in denial - this is the insanity part. We do things that hurt ourselves and those around us but we think we are getting away with it.

And then we cross the line where it becomes compulsive.
Now we are really trapped. We feel bad about it - but it feels so good that we do it to recover from feeling bad.
EVERY ONE of us tried to stop. But when we fail we feel bad and P is such a great magic feeling drug. It gives a short term rush that covers the pain of the mess we are in.

Without being too sexist there is something about the below the waist urge in guys that really commands physical attention. I am not saying that women don't have this too. But we have a P industry targetting us

When we try to quit we go thru withdrawl. It is tough to quit daily orgasms.

Our world is spinning and sometimes partners want us to open up and be new people so quickly. We are lost.

My heart goes out to those of you whose partners are still in denial.

But I feel even more sympathy for both SO and partners who are in the early stages of recovery.

My first few weeks were H. I wanted closeness, I missed P and daily quick easy orgasms, I felt like the world's bigger looser. I felt that I would loose the one I loved. I had trouble imagining ever feeling balanced again. Everything was in a stew.

A few guys like me go to tears under the stress - This drove my wife nuts and she kept her distance - exactly what I DIDN'T need. But I hung in there and as my emotions settled we reconnected and recovery in our relationship could began.

Other guys clam up under the pressure - No P - No sex - No self worth. I realize those clammed up guys are driving you SO women nuts but it is all they know how to do. My view is that keeping your emotional and physical distance can make things overly difficult.
This it just my opinion but I suspect that those clammed up guys are crying inside - they are lost, frightened and afraid of what life will be like without P. That is the insanity part.

It seems we MUST quit P and regain lost relationships. But in the early stages of quitting I could hardly live without P and sex let alone begin working on the relationship.

You women are AMAZING in the way you can articulate your feeling so well.

We P addicts have feeling too but we have learned to use sex as a drug to handle them. I am sure that some researcher somewhere can elaborate on just how powerful this rush is.
And we get trapped into this cycle of destructive dependancy.

I'm going in circles here but I just want to offer the following conclusions.

If your guy is wanting to quit set boundries but leave the emotional and physical channels open.
If you lived with his P use for years, perhaps a few weeks of patience as he finds his way to sanity are worth it.
He NEEDS other guys to disclose to - I use SAA
He NEEDS a counselor - someone who knows PA and is separate from the SO
He NEEDS to know that you will be there for him IF he makes an effort
He NEEDS real boundries
He NEEDS time to see a way thru - promises to quit won't cut it.
In the end - you as an SO are the sane one - especially if you are writing on this site.
Eventually you may have to end the relationship but perhaps my ideas give a glimmer into what he is going thru.

A late nite ramble from one guy who is extremely grateful for a partner who offerd time, bounderies and support.
Dave

[last2know]

Dear Dave,

Forgive me, I just had to begin that way because it has such a nice ring. Today is rough for me (sad and bad hair on top of it) and so I get silly sometimes to mask the pain.

I am one of the new desparate wives that you see posting and begging for insight. THANK YOU so much for the insight that you just gave! You have helped me to understand a little more.

My h and I are going to divorce (his decision). I believe that he is doing this because he does not know how to work through our regular marital issues, and on top of it I caught him with a raging PA.

I don't know if you saw my post from yesterday when I said that I gave him the letter and his response of basic denial.

However, your clear and thoughtful insight stirred up feelings in me of wanting to try harder to save my marriage. I had given up because he seems hell bent on ending it. I know that I can't make him stay if he doesn't want to, but if he is feeling what you wrote (and I think so), then maybe I need to creep up on him and somehow get it through to him that he is safe with me.

At the very least, after reading your post there, I want to contact one of his 2 childhood male friends who he is still "close" with and informing him/them of my H's struggle. Even if my h becomes furious with me , he would have a male who loves him, to talk to. Now my h is a very proud person. When I first discovered this problem 2 years ago, he did beg me not to tell one of the male friends that I speak of. I understand that he wants to look like the very capable and successful man in front of them. I said that I wouldn't tell.

What does anyone think of me telling my H that I would like to do this? No, I think that I can hear the answer to that one already. WRONG! DON'T DO IT! HE WILL HATE YOU FOREVER.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that your post gave me hope and renewed empathy. I can see that my H is so scared behind his mask of denial. I just wish that I knew that he still loves me (he says that he doesn't want me and that the feeling is gone) and that it isn't too late. I too have pride after I keep trying everything and he rejects me and takes another step in the direction of divorce.

[mamampj]

Thanks, Dave. Thanks especially for the reminder that change takes time. That is one of the things that has been hardest for me. When I first found out about my husband's addiction, I thought, "Well, ok, now we know what the problem is and you can fix it and tada! everything will be perfect."

It has taken years of work for us to get to a place where things are better, and we're still working to make them better still, but they're never going to be perfect: good and loving and honest and real and connected are all possibilities, but perfect doesn't exist in this life.

[needsmoresugar]

Dave, thank you for this. As someone who has just recently discovered her partner's PA, this is incredibly helpful and enlightening.

[Vonny]

Dave huge thanks ...... threading high tide here .. Your input is what I see in my partner . He's drowning in his denial and letting the air out of his family safety jackets all while he lingers in denial . Without a glance back to see the damage done .. or a thought to us , his family he vowed to love and protect many years ago ....
Insight into the pain he suffers is a life raft to understanding and then gaining the tools that will help in a postive way for my partner ...

[brulant]

Thanks Dave for your post.

While I do understand intellectually that addicts need to be selfish in their recovery I also know that SOs do too. Ironically there is a disconnect somehow because PA revolves around selfishness and SOs are left in the cold. Recovery, too, revolves around keeping y'all happy but there is not much for the partner who is attempting to also heal and recover.

See p is very demanding. It wants the world to revolve around it. It gets angry when the world doesn't and itdoesn't want to know that its destructive. Recovery is the same from an addicts perspective.

I offer a different perspective, though.

I believe that waking up from PA is about learning how to be unselfish.
; )

I got it!!!!!

Maybe the PAs and the SOs could set up a time and some boundaries revolving around allowing the SOs to get angry, to cry, to go through some of the emotions that are required for our healing. The world tells us we need to forgive, but the world doesn't get that forgiveness is *not* denying. Denial is the worst thing that anyone can do and denial masquerading as forgiveness is demanding that we sacrifice even more of our self esteem and integrity. These kinds of sacrifices also cause other emotional and psychic demands and often lead to depression, and other issues.

It makes sense though, that if SOs were gifted the opportunity in a safe fashion to get out some of that anger and blow off some of that steam that it could be a win win. If the time was set up ahead of time something like this could totally work.

Limitations and boundaries would entail boundaries unique to your own life, but maybe set to something like going to a thrift store and buying a ton of dishes for her to throw and break or something along those lines. A good boundary would be that she could not throw anything at your head or groin.... for instance. ; ) That could be easily changed if sufficient body armor was prearranged though! lol

The session would be a prearranged time and could be set by an egg timer (which is generally three minutes).

Giving her the gift of the right to be angry but in away which needs to be beneficial and not destructive to your recovery sounds like a really amazing concept, actually. I am a big fan of figuring out how to take out anger in healthy ways. I like to build things, myself, so power tools often work for me. I think of it as creating from destruction.

I guess the final thing that would be crucial in this experiment would be how to reconnect at the end. Non sexual touching and hugging would be an *excellent* idea I'm guessing. A way to bring out an honest laugh is also incredibly healing as well.

Whatever it takes.

Its just that we need to get to heal too.
BTW, maybe dealing with some PA rage in this kind of way might also be helpful. Getting angry at p. Getting angry at what robbed you of your human connections or whatever brought you to this place. Turning that anger into a force of creation and not the stuffed anger that comes out sideways and all "wrong" and accidentally goes onto the wrong person or thing.....

Have a great night everyone!
That was fun to think through.
I hope some of you guys enjoyed it too!!

brulant

[FairyG]

Very well written late night ramble, Dave, thank you - you should ramble here more often