"Family values"

[illumination]

I've noticed a new design on the front page. I like it generally, but something set me on edge about the list of values to be associated with the site, especially 'family values'.

One of the many things I really like about this site is that it's not associated with any particular religious or political views. It's just here to help people who for various reasons have realised they have a problem with porn addiction.

For me the phrase 'family values' refers to a very particular set of ethical and political beliefs, certainly including a particular idea of the heterosexual nuclear family as the ideal structure of human private life. It may also include certain conservative ideas about gender roles and even about sexual orientation.

I have nothing against people holding and expressing these beliefs, and I realise that many people come to an anti-porn position through conservative Christian ethical theories. But I do not think it is appropriate to associate any particular belief system with this site, which seeks to reach and help as many people as possible.

I am an anarchist. My politics are anti-state, anti-industrial, autonomous and ecological. I do not believe that the nuclear family is always the best structure for society to be built from. Many of my friends have various sexualities and / or are in poIyamorous relationships. I am a buddhist and atheist. None of these things change the fact that I have been addicted to porn and desperately wanted to change. I do not expect this site to express the beliefs that I hold, but I am pleased to have been able to express myself freely here.

I have found it very interesting to exchange profound psychological support with people who probably have extremely different theories about ethics and politics from me. I would not like the front page to give the impression that the site is based on one particular way of looking at things. I hope the admin will consider a more neutral and inclusive text from now on.

[FoolishMind]

Thank you illumination for your feedback and suggestions. As you say, TTF is not associated with any specific religion or sxual orientation. However, numerous religions and spiritual beliefs are mentioned here, when helpful to the individual. Were in a current climate where it is "not safe" or "not pleasing" to the masses. But in our world of diverse cultures and beliefs, the majority have learned to respect and accommodate other beliefs that they may not share themselves.

It is unfortunate that your translation or interpretation of the term "family values" does not accommodate you. However, Im sure you will respect that a number of individuals will interpret the loosely said term as something quite general and welcoming.

For these reasons, I will insist that the term "family values" remains.

I hope the core topic of this site will still engage and fit with all your beliefs and ethics.

All the best

FM

[Dominus]

Thanks for your input Illumination. The values listed are an indication of the kind of values we support, though not neccesarily a statement of what we believe the core values in life should be. We support family values, we support Integrity, we support people with hopes and beliefs and we support Anarchists. I am sure you understand that it would be difficult to contrive a list that suited everybodys flavour of ethics.

[Sheemie]

Dominus and FoolishMind have some good points, but I'm with illumination on this one. In western society "Family Values" is a term that has been co-opted by rather some rather nasty forces. I understand that TTF isn't trying to align itself with them, but to the casual person checking this site out for the first time, it could certainly give that impression. Why needlessly alienate some people? To be honest it did make me do a double take the first time I saw it. I was like "woah, wait a minute, is this some right-wing site?" To be fair though, on the same page it refers to SO's as "Partners". I'm sure there are some conservative folks who may be put off by a term other than "spouse". So, yeah, I understand you can't please all of the people all of the time. Its just that in that spot on the page it says "Hope, Honesty, Integrity, Unconditional Support" all great things... then "Family Values" conjures up images of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. EWWW!!
I know... these are my own hangups and I don't expect you to go and change it or anything
Just wanted to throw in my two cents..... Thanks :)

[admin]

I don't think anyone realized this would be an issue for people, but if you guys seriously think it might be turning people away from the site, then by all means we can replace it with another tag line.

Suggestions?

[FoolishMind]

Suggestion: its a simple term, and should not be considered offensive or misleading in anyway. Leave it as it is. One day someone may find the word flame offending as it may conjure up their fear of fire and remind them of hell. They may then suggest you change the name of the site!

Lets not go overboard, and everyone treading on egg shells. This site is extremely accommodating, and the core focus is assisting people to be free from P. Lets make sure that objective remains clear.

(Going to check the prices at Disney now for a "FAMILY" day out)

[Sheemie]

FoolishMind: From the tone of your response and your use of the "angry" icon at the top of your reply I get the impression that you're pretty upset about this. I'm really sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to attack your beliefs or families in general. I'm a married man myself, and my family unit is the main reason I'm here. I was more talking about the stigma attached to a term rather than the concept of family. I truly sincerely apologize.

Admin: Thanks for your response and sensitivity to the issue. That really says a lot about TTF. Very impressive! I guess my suggestion would be leaving it as it is for now because I know its a lot of work to make a change like that and the Family Values tag is obviously very important to some people. Maybe the next time its updated something could be put in that spot along with family values to be inclusive of people that choose a lifestyle other than "family". That way the family values tag can stay, but any negative connotations of the term could be offset by the inclusion of single people etc.

Once again, its just a thought, my two cents and all that.... Thanks again :)

[Dominus]

All of us are in a family in one way or another, everyone at least has a mum unless human cloning is upon us, the human race couldnt survive without it. I am racking my brain to find a problem with the term 'family values' Maybe it means something different in the US and thats why us blighteys have difficulty with understanding it.

[FoolishMind]

Sheemie, Not offended at all, Just peeved that sometimes we make an issue of something so trivial. This site is ultimatley free, and the objective is to help people. I applaud the creators of this site, and contribute a considerable amount of time to assisting others. So it peeves me that some individuals pick on something that is really not a cause for concern, and feel that they should just genuinely feel thankful of what this site is, and does. It is clear this site does not intend to hurt anyone, quite the opposite in fact. So i appologise to you, as I have come across a little defensive, But hopefully I have explained why. And perhaps Dominus is right, Maybe in UK the term family values is defined differently to everywhere else in the world.

Lets leave it as that, and focus on what we are all actually here for. To help oneself and others.

Wish you all the best.

[futurehope]

I agree with Illumination that "Family Values" suggests a right-wing conservative Christian sort of approach. I'm sure it varies from country to country, which is maybe where the disagreement has arisen. I'm not in the UK or US, and in my country this phrase is certainly associated with certain very conservative political groups. And I think debate is good, if people are to feel welcome here and really part of what we are trying to do.