"Family values"

[HalfPint]

Personally, I agree, this is a ridiculous thing to argue about. Originally this shouldn't have been posted outright like this. It should have been something, through a private message, that was taken directly to admin or one of us moderators. The reason we don't have a "debate" forum is because this is a place to get help with porn, not a place to debate about beliefs or ideas. Unless admin says otherwise I think we should not have a debating thread.

On the subject, if someone doesn't join the forums because they see the phrase "family values" and assumes that it means something to do with Christianity would be foolish. Growing up, I was always taught to not judge a book by its cover. Just because the book has "family values" on the front doesn't mean that it expresses Christian family values or as someone said before "nuclear family" values. Saying that it implies "right wing beliefs", "Christianity", or one type of family STRUCTURE (note, not values) is assuming. Its a phrase, it means different things to different people. The word gay used to mean happy, and now it can mean happy and it can mean a homosexual male. Should I be offended if someone writes a book that has the title "The gay fisherman", the answer to that question is no. Just because it says "the gay fisherman" does not mean that it talks about a homosexual male who catches fish. For all you know it could just be a story about a mans life who was a fisherman and who was happy, it might not even go in depth about his "fishing job". I was in a play in high school that was labeled "while the lights were out", sure, some people could argue that it implies something of the sexual nature, in fact someone brought that up, but that doesn't mean that that is what it is about. It was a murder mystery.

Also, I'm saddened that there have been personal attacks here. Foolish is one of my good friends, and is by no means, ignorant, arrogant, or naive. He has not said anything about anyone in this topic or regarding the topic, just that the argument was trivial. To let something, such as an argument about the phrase family values, make you get so irate that you start calling PEOPLE names is in an of itself disrespectful and uncalled for. I will not tolerate anyone else lashing out personally to someone. Arguing about a topic is one thing, arguing isn't the best choice in any matter, but calling someone else names like that is another. Let me refer to rule number 7.

Originally Posted by Rule 7

This forum is meant to be a constructive place, where you can offer support and comfort to others and receive the same. Anyone with hateful or malicious intent will be warned and then banned. Please respect each other and the fact that what works for one person may not work for another.

with that said, lashing out at someone, calling them names, is not constructive, is not respectful and could be considered hateful or malicious. So, I'm going to lay this down now, and if admin disagrees I will change it. If anyone else lashes out personally against someone, calling them names, despite whether or not you may think you are right and just in what you want to call them, this will result in an infraction. Let this be everyone's formal warning. As stated in rule 9

Originally Posted by Rule 9

You will receive a formal warning, and then on the second warning, you will be banned from the site. The severity of the ban depends on your actions on the site. There are 3 levels:

1 month for minor infractions. (You are causing trouble but it's obvious you have redeeming qualities)

3 months for more serious offenses. (You are a constant annoyance to other members and offer little constructive advice)

Permanent ban for major offenses. (You stepped over the line and don't belong here, you were posting inappropriate material, links, images, or anything that may upset other members)

The severity of the ban will be discussed by the mods, and so will everything else I have posted. If we are in disagreement I will remove it, until then it stands.

Also know this. Its impossible to please everyone, if it wasn't then we wouldn't have any wars, we wouldn't have such bad economies, we wouldn't have border fences, and our gasoline wouldn't be half the price that it is now. If admin started making changes just because one person got peeved about it then it would be impossible for him to keep updating everything, and he shouldn't have to. He would be updating things so much that he wouldn't have time to do anything else. Try putting yourself in his shoes. he started this site with his own money, with his own will power and his own want to help people to cure themselves of porn addiction. Admin has been nothing but gracious, and selfless. If anything we should consider ourselves lucky, dare I say blessed, that these forums are here, instead of finding things to complain about regarding the page or its layout.


Further, if you have any other problems take them directly to admin or to one of us mods who can forward it on to him.

[Scooter]

Now I'm gonna make my points.

1. The only people that think this thread is rediculous are those that dont have a problem with it. Why not encourage public discussion? I have chosen to do so a number of times. If 1 person raises a query, it can be easy shot down my an admin, but surely if many people contribute, a greater indiciation of members attitudes can be obtained. Why are you so scared of public discussion about issues? I've found this site has had an unfortunate tendancy to sweep controversial issues under the rug.

2. There have been no personal attacks here. There was comment that a particular POST was arrogant and I stand by it. Claiming a members genuine concern as trvial, simply because its no big deal to you, is in my opinion, arrogant behaviour.

I dont even care about what this thread was originally about... it wasn't me that originally raised it, but what does make me irate is that members dont seem to be able to raise concerns and invite discussion without being criticised heavily and threatening with banning.

If people on this site are not able to express different opinions, I fear I may not last here very long, which would be a shame.

[illumination]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the thread I started called 'family values' seems to have been quietly deleted. Can someone please explain why a thread that did not break any forum rules has been removed? Is it because some moderators did not agree with what was being said?

If the thread was considered off-topic it should have been moved to the off-topic forum. I thought the debate was perfectly acceptable, but it is not acceptable to delete posts just because you don't agree with them or because they challenge your beliefs.

[FoolishMind]

The thread was deleted as a number of members had complained that it was ruining the harmony and peaceful atmosphere of the site. This was a collective decision made by the TTF team.

Please note this site is for the assitance of those affected by PA.

[admin]

I would like to take a moment to thank FM. He and the other mods are doing a tough job, they are enforcing the TTF rules and sometimes that's not always easy or fun. Thanks to our hard working mod team this site has grown into a really helpful and supportive community. We are not trying to censor anyone, but at some point we need to get back to the topic at hand.

If people wish to debate "Family Values" then that is by all means encouraged in the appropriate area: The off topic forum.

Thanks everyone, have a great weekend!

[futurehope]

With respect, if you want to achieve a peaceful and harmonious community, simply suppressing the heartfelt concerns of other people probably isn't the best way to achieve it. If it was off-topic, why not simply move the thread there?

[Scooter]

I concur wholeheartedly with futurehope and illumination.

[admin]

Due to the baggage that the term "Family values" apparently carries, and the controversy it has created here, we have removed it from the front page. Please understand that we used this term with the best intentions and have no right wing or conservative affiliations.

If you still wish to debate what "Family values" means to you, we have moved that post to the Off topic forum.

http://www.throughtheflame.org/forum...ly-values.html

The moderators have their work cut out for them and are not to blame for trying to keep the focus on the topic of the site, which is PA. They are doing their best to keep everyone happy and keep the forums useful for new visitors.

I seriously doubt that thread is of much use to a newbie looking for help here. That said, we are not trying to squash anyone's view or opinion. Hopefully we can all move forward and focus on the real issue here, which is PA, and supporting one another.

Thank you!