The importance of setting expectations and boundaries in a relationship

As someone who appears to suffer from various forms of obsessive / compulsive behavior--I have found that liquor, drugs, gambling, and P present real problems for me--I feel it would be puritanical and wrong to project my limitations on the whole of society. Some are able to enjoy these vices with seeming maturity and impunity and with reasonable moderation or self-control. Gambling for me is a marginal problem. I can gamble a bit here and there at family functions or gatherings. I just don’t seem to do well with frequent or “casino” style gambling. The above article seems to take the discussion beyond where I am comfortable. I don’t smoke marijuana, but I do want it legalized. I do not drink, but I do not mind if my fiancé drinks her wine. And, in like manner, while I do not advise P use and feel it is psychologically and relationally detrimental, I am not so naive as to suppose that all adults have the same problematic, obsessive reaction to such images as have I. Each relationship would need to discuss P (or not) based upon its own discretion. In my case, I feel it would be a detrimental conversation, on the par with telling my mate that she can never indulge in “comfort” chocolate cake eating. I do not want her to engage in food addictive behaviors, but it is not my place to lay down rules for her. She is an adult.

apuleius,

I am not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with setting boundaries in a relationship.

Each relationship would need to discuss P (or not) based upon its own discretion. In my case, I feel it would be a detrimental conversation, on the par with telling my mate that she can never indulge in “comfort” chocolate cake eating. I do not want her to engage in food addictive behaviors, but it is not my place to lay down rules for her. She is an adult.

Of course each person in a relationship would use their discretion in whether a discussion about P use is necessary or not. The problem is, for many SOs here, we never knew we needed to discuss P use at all. For me, it didn't occur to me that I need to specifically tell my husband not to lie to me and not to get his sxual kicks from everyone except me. I never knew this was a necessary conversation because I thought marriage vows covered all that.

I think this is a good article for us here at TTF and for us to pass this info on to our friends and loved ones. Since PA/SA is such a hidden and taboo subject, it doesn't occur to people to talk about it. It doesn't occur to someone who isn't lying and manipulating their partner to assume that their partner is doing that. And yes we are all adults. I would never tell my husband what he can and can't do. But, I can and will set boundaries on what I tolerate in a marriage. He is an adult and capable of deciding to respect my boundaries or leave me. It is NEVER the adult thing to do to say, of course honey, I hear you, then lie and cheat and manipulate to break the other partner's boundaries.

Apuleios,I agree wholeheartedly with WONLM here. I would only like to add/emphasis that it is entirely my right to decide whether i will have a partner who engages in the use of P. Not up to me whether my H chooses to use or not, you are right. But it is up to me whether I choose to stay in the relationship if P is involved. I made that choice and subsequently my H made his. I don't look upon that as making his decisions for him, (or even as an ultimatum as I was perfectly prepared to leave the relationship.) He is perfectly capable of that 'as an adult'. But just as I would not tell him what he must do, he in turn cannot expect to tell me what I must be willing to put up with. We all have choices to make in this. In our case it has worked out in a positive way by each of us making the best choice possible during a most difficult time.All the best in your recovery!Jenn
After having read the whole article, I can only say that I agree completely with everything that was said!

Thank JenMac, I could not have said it better myself....we all have choices here.

it is entirely my right to decide whether i will have a partner who engages in the use of P.

I don't look upon that as making his decisions for him,

After my own experience and after witnessing the pain of many here, both SOs and PAs, I can't think that p is good for anyone period. I used to say to each his own. Now I know what that can mean, and it is empty, sad, depraved, injurious and should come with warnings for its addictive properties. The purveyors of this filth are only after money at any cost. I would like them to all go broke. This defiles human relationships. I am telling like it I see it from my experience. No one has to agree with me. disillusioned

A-
I think we're in agreement that those in intimate partnerships will each have to decide for themselves whether P use is problematic. I would like to spare everyone the tragedy I've seen written about here, and of which I've had just enough of to know not to go any further. I can't always do that, however. People have to find some things out for themselves, sometimes the hard way. All I can do is offer up my own experience as a warning, while remembering that that experience may not be universal.

As for myself, after all I've put my wife and myself through, if the question ever came up again, I would have to say using P would be a deal-breaker for me. But like D said above, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
John

This is an important topic. I think there are some complexities that have not really been addressed. First, PAs have tended to use SO confessions as a way to assuage their guilt, which then feeds the cycle. So, confidence is in such a case merely selfish. Another abuse of the confession comes from the very attractive notion that our SO will be properly and fully disgusted with our behavior thus assisting us in seeing the utter ugliness of our vacuous lapse in morality. Both of these motives are selfish and, I might add, unhelpful for the PA. Another aspect that complicates the matter resides with the misguided religious sense of morality that pervades american cultures. Sexual repression and aberrant expression drive the dysfunctional wheel of Western sexuality. Infidelity, however, comes in many shapes and sizes. According to Buss, perhaps the world’s leading expert in female sexual psychology, the “story” is what matters most in female infidelity. While men would tend to prefer visual stimulation through media, females would see a romance novel, soap opera, or latest vampire show as the preferred external outlet for artificial or fantastic satisfaction of inner needs. My grandmother would religiously watch four or five soap opera programs each day, but would hardly cross a room to hug or kiss my poor grandfather. These shows had become substitutes for the work of true connectedness and intimacy between them. I am no less disgusted by this form of laziness as I am by a person’s reliance upon P within a relationship. Amplification of the guilt by Judeo-christian moralizing in america has been counter-productive, imho. P is not “dirty” per se. It can be, however, deeply inappropriate and destructive regarding the essential elements of a quality relationship. P also undermines the PA’s psychological constitution, creating untold suffering and isolation. The most lonely people in the world, imho, are PAs.From the standpoint of the SO, I agree that they need to set boundaries according to what they find tolerable or acceptable, for their own sake. Alanon has provided an entire system of “tough-love” models that can help the SO move from victim/enabler to empowerment. The pervasive use of P in the English speaking world adds some consoling perspective. Google has reported that over half of web traffic is P images and video. Seen in this way, the web has become little more than an electronic P magazine with some advertisements and editorials, sadly. Those individuals of nobler conscience who insist on charting a better course for themselves, from this standpoint, should be viewed as the real heroes of society. While, in a very real way, I am entirely ashamed of my past use of P, on the other hand, I am delighted and proud to be part of a growing community of individuals who have decided to go against the grain and live P-Free. Despite its ugliness (perhaps even because of it), this process has been a tremendous learning experience for me about myself and about what truly matters in this life. I believe that we should be as tolerant as possible with others and be hardest on ourselves. For this reason, I would not want to be in a relationship with a female who made a big deal out of pornography. I similarly suppose that a "good" woman would not want me micro-managing her dietary choices, book reading, or TV watching. I suppose I could give her the ultimatum early on "If I ever catch you acting in a flirtatious manner with another man, I'll leave you", but do I really need to make such threats? Do I really want her devotion to arise out of a fear that I will abandon her? The web, TV, and magazine publications have become a sort of extension of the pre-existing human mind, no more healthy or unhealthy than what had already existed, only radically augmented by these technologies. If your mate knew all the things that went through your mind, would he/she stay with you? This one vice is vilified, but is one of an array of destructive regions in human behavior and psychology. It is easy to become legalistic about it, but all that really matters is what is transacting within the human mind. In my case, I am all but incapable of engaging P without having destructive, obsessive mental trauma. I do know some men and women, however, who do not appear to have these reactions to pornography. For them, it all seems rather benign. The PA is distinct in this way.

I shall now exit the discourse and allow other voices to respond or contribute. Thank you all for adding to my growth and wisdom. :-)